In the interview that follows Gioni describes how his primary interest in working with outsider art is actually more about a reorientation to art as matter and to a troubling of how objects are treated within exhibitions through his own alternative modalities of selection. Apart from The Encyclopedic Palace in Venice, other examples of his curatorial projects with expanded notions of the art object include 10,000 Lives: The 8th Gwangju Biennale (2010), South Korea, 2010; Ghosts in the Machine, New Museum, New York, 2012; and The Keeper, also at the New Museum, 2016. These projects, which offered significant opportunities for experimentation, chart the development of his ideas in this realm and also offer an opportunity to consider their reception within this framework. A shared understanding of the qualities of outsider art, in terms of its “aesthetics of disruption,” whereby it continues to occupy a marginal position in the periphery, is what captivates Gioni most. This interview seeks to explore these ideas further.